Curse

Curry Assassin · Dec 11, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

This my suggestion. It may seem broad but really it isn't. As a pvper I can firmly say the meta game in guild wars just about everywhere sucks. Specifically, HA and GvG. This is obvious to any constant pvper who knows things.

What do you mean the meta sucks? Well, everyone runs the meta game. Take the standard GvG balance, or Sway when it used to dominate HA. I'd say a good 80-90% of the GW PvP community runs the meta. While there might be small changes noticable, none really distiguish it as it's own build.

The reason the meta is run by practically everyone is this: there are very few good, durable skills in the game, and with every skill rebalance it narrows them down even further. This is because skill rebalances only tend to target a certain area noted by the players, ex: healing prayers (WoH buff). Players and admins alike have left no regard for the rest of the skills in the game that are typically not used during high ranked pvp and deemed them as un-usable.

This is where the problem is. Due to specific skill balances skills are not properly accessed and therefore forgotten. This needs to be stopped. If the guild wars staff were to spend a month or two primarly focusing on buffing all the bad skills and nerfing the good ones it would create a diverse and open meta game, thus re-attracting a large chunck of the guild wars community: the PvPers, like myself.

LONG STORY SHORT: Make all the bad skills better (~90%-95% of the guild wars skill pool)

ex)

- Demonic Flesh
- Amity
- Hundred Blades
- Supportive Sprit
- Skullcrack
- Soul Leech
- Decapitate
- Strike-as-one
- Blood Bond
- Blood Renewal
- "Can't Touch This!"
- Incoming
- Healing Breeze
- Flare
- Lightning Javelin

ETC ETC ETC!!!

REMEMBER: I am talking about the PvP meta game, specifically GvG and HA, if you do not no the current meta, DO NOT POST!

Wish Swiftdeath · Dec 11, 2007, 06:41 AM // 06:41

people have been saying this for months/years already....

Skye Marin · Dec 11, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

There's a problem though. If you buff too much, especially certain combinations of skills that work well together, and especially across professions, then two things happen:

a) The meta swings too wildly, so the effects of balance changes can't be judged
b) It has to be nerfed again, and everyone complains

Nightfall's power creep is a great example of what happens with increases in skill power. During the PvP beta weekend, Dervishes were the meta because of their great AoE caster-damage. They were nerfed, however, their popularity completely blindsided requisite nerfs to Searing Flames and multi-Paragon synergy. If these things were nipped in the bud very early, then there wouldn't be as many nerfs and fewer community/meta problems.

The other problem is that if you buff a skill, and nothing really changes, then it was a wasted effort. That effort would be better used programming GW2, fixing bugs, or doing community support. Anet does have limited resources. It is best to address a handful of Professions/Attributes at a time. This way, the impact on the meta is clearly seen quickly, the meta stabilizes, and overpoweredness can be predicted to a reasonable degree.

The other problem is, how do you classify a "bad skill"? It's a matter of opinion, and everyone has one. Even you listed Healing Breeze, a skill that recently got a pretty nice buff, and "Incoming!" a skill that was intentionally nerfed to its current position because of abuse that came out of it.

In short, it's just not that easy.

Onarik Amrak · Dec 11, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Curry Assassin · Dec 11, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

There's a problem though. If you buff too much, especially certain combinations of skills that work well together, and especially across professions, then two things happen:

a) The meta swings too wildly, so the effects of balance changes can't be judged
b) It has to be nerfed again, and everyone complains

Nightfall's power creep is a great example of what happens with increases in skill power. During the PvP beta weekend, Dervishes were the meta because of their great AoE caster-damage. They were nerfed, however, their popularity completely blindsided requisite nerfs to Searing Flames and multi-Paragon synergy. If these things were nipped in the bud very early, then there wouldn't be as many nerfs and fewer community/meta problems.

The other problem is that if you buff a skill, and nothing really changes, then it was a wasted effort. That effort would be better used programming GW2, fixing bugs, or doing community support. Anet does have limited resources. It is best to address a handful of Professions/Attributes at a time. This way, the impact on the meta is clearly seen quickly, the meta stabilizes, and overpoweredness can be predicted to a reasonable degree.

The other problem is, how do you classify a "bad skill"? It's a matter of opinion, and everyone has one. Even you listed Healing Breeze, a skill that recently got a pretty nice buff, and "Incoming!" a skill that was intentionally nerfed to its current position because of abuse that came out of it.

In short, it's just not that easy.

I'm not saying it easy. It shouldnt be easy. This would take a long time and a lot of hard work. And Anet needs to do it.

Tyla · Dec 12, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

i thought i made a thread in the campfire named "Let's make bad skills usable!"

Master Sword Keeper · Dec 12, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

I about to [skill]flare[/skill] the lot of you. There wasnt anything wrong with the skills. It's how you use them. ANY build can be countered. Stop crying and get over it.

Winterclaw · Dec 12, 2007, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I'm sure Anet despite having to spend all their time making GW2 can delay their next big payday long enough to fix the game they are barely bothering to maintain, even though they could have fixed a lot of the bad skills years ago.

I'd be happy if anet fixed the skills, but unless they are killing gameplay because they are overpowered or anet wants to tweak something to mix up PvP it isn't going to happen.

Anyways I'm going to disagree with this one because I'm not sure all the bad skills can be fixed. I'd rather see them dropped and have their art assets recycled if anet wants to bring in some new, usable skills.

Div · Dec 12, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Anet's not going to buff 1000 skills just to diversify the meta. And even if they do, some skills will inevitably be better (or more suitable for the meta) than others.

BlackSephir · Dec 12, 2007, 05:28 AM // 05:28

When it comes to balance and diversity, obviously asking AN for help isn't an option.

TaCktiX · Dec 12, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

They have stated in the past that they like changing a few skills at a time and noting the effects. So an across-the-board-fix-all-those-crap-skills buff is unlikely.

That said, how about this idea: take some subset of crap skills, say elites of 2 different professions, and 5 skills of those same professions. Buff them a little bit. Watch the meta for the next week. Nerf if overpowered, keep as they were if not, buff further if not even seen. Watch meta for next week. Make final edits to subset, rinse, repeat.

yum · Dec 12, 2007, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curry Assassin

- Demonic Flesh
- Amity
- Hundred Blades
- Supportive Sprit
- Skullcrack
- Soul Leech
- Decapitate
- Strike-as-one
- Blood Bond
- Blood Renewal
- "Can't Touch This!"
- Incoming
- Healing Breeze
- Flare
- Lightning Javelin

In order:
_Make you immune to any kind but holy damage.
=> skill. 50 s. End only if you attack the target.
_Swing your sword 100 times at your target. Can not be blocked.
_When target ally is kd, all foes in the area are kd for 3s instead.
_Disable target foe's skills for 20s.
_Steal up to 80...200...280
_If target hp is < 30...50..65%, dies instantly.
_you and your pet strike target foe once.
_whenver you take damage, target ally loses the same amount of hp instead.
_foes' touch skills affect the nearest ally instead.
_you move 50% faster toward the ally with the most hp.
_you are heal for 60..180..250 hp but all your skills are disabled for 20s.
_target foe and one ally suffer from burning for 3..10s (instead of damage).
_hold a lighitng spear for 10s.

....

suggestions?